Overheating suggestion

[Barcode]

Hey, everyone.

I have been playing around and learning how overheat works and frankly, I don't think "constant yet subtle armor damage" is the way to go, considering lore and its current affects on gameplay mechanics.

We currently have a red throb in the cockpit (god that sounds dirty) when overheating, which gave me an idea.

Suppose that you have a separate gauge for "critical heat". This "critical heat" gauge could appear under your crosshair as an MW2-style heat bar that closes into the middle (as an easier frame of reference for people pushing the limits). When you are over that overheat line, you begin to fill this "critical heat" gauge at a rate of (current amount of overheat / xsecond, where x is whatever scaling you would think is fair); when you are below the overheat line, critical heat dissapates at (current amount under overheat line / ysecond, where y is whatever scaling you would think is fair).

Here's where it makes a difference: the critical heat line has ticks along it, measuring certain "milestones" - ammo explosions and weapon meltdowns. Bigger weapons will meltdown/have their ammo explode at higher temperatures (and therefore they would add ticks closer to the center of the gauge), and if the two critical heat bars reach the middle, you get a core meltdown (read: dedmech). Oh, and different-sized ammo explosions/meltdowns will do different amounts of damage to your 'Mech- of course, nobody wants to get struck down by an MG cache cooking off, and the smaller the weapon, the less cookoff/meltdown damage you would take, and you could even get creative - say, lasers meltdown without any indication or damage to your 'Mech, then break the next time you fire (melted focus crystal); Gauss watermelons don't explode, but the guns do; missiles are downright catastrophic and have the same "loose rockets everywhere" effect they currently have; etc.

Of course, some playtesting will be necessary so people with PPCs don't just shoot at 'Mechs that just fired their laser salvos and near-immediately cause three weapons to meltdown (though perhaps this would make coolant even more important in-game...?), but I still think this is better than "your armour somehow whittles down".

EDIT - Damnit, this should be moved to Suggestions.
PS - Credit goes to someone on the Mektek forums for thinking of this while discussing MW5.

[TheDrgnRbrn]

Essentially, the explosions and such are something that has been requested on multiple occasions for multiple reasons. The new, more penalizing heat system of 0.3.0 is a good step in the right direction.

However, it is hardly 'constant yet subtle armor damage'. I have lost a few scats when that heat went rocketing off the scale. True, barely redlining it will keep it subtle, but your also tapping C as soon as you hit the mark so you don't stay close enough to actually take damage. Its either total green or utter red.

The suggestion is good, but remember, your mech shuts down after three seconds at redline. So, I would say that this is the first thing that needs fixing. Instead of tapping C to cool your mech, instead override the auto-shutdown. That way you can keep fighting and really feel the effects of heat. This first, then you could expand on the heat effects.

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

I agree on the over ride.

What i never understood in the books though was the fact that machine would blow up or have system damage LONG before a mechwarrior actually passed out and died from the heat.

The simple fact is that machinery and electrical systems should be much more resistant to "heat damage" than the pilot even with a coolant vest.  Sure the core body temp of the pilot can be explain away with the coolant vest but damit, (s)he's got a tight fitting neuro helmet that never depicted as having good ventilation!  All that extra heat to the head would cause massive  problems with at least vision, equilibrium (this should jack up the mechs balance as the neuro helmet fed gyroscope info is now compromised), and have a high possibility of just passing out.

[CharlesBronson]

I agree on the over ride.

What i never understood in the books though was the fact that machine would blow up or have system damage LONG before a mechwarrior actually passed out and died from the heat.

The simple fact is that machinery and electrical systems should be much more resistant to "heat damage" than the pilot even with a coolant vest.  Sure the core body temp of the pilot can be explain away with the coolant vest but damit, (s)he's got a tight fitting neuro helmet that never depicted as having good ventilation!  All that extra heat to the head would cause massive  problems with at least vision, equilibrium (this should jack up the mechs balance as the neuro helmet fed gyroscope info is now compromised), and have a high possibility of just passing out.

This could easily be explained by the cockpit life support systems, whether its completely canon or not is another story.  I would like to see the heat have some physiological effects on the pilot somehow (The first thing that comes to mind is wavy heat mirage type effect on screen).

I would also like to see heat build up effect sensors and electronics both temporarily and permanently.  The heat could mess with your sensor systems dramatically, maybe lock up masc, shut the systems down even prior to mech shut down, or just melt your gizmo to nothin. 

And on  the reverse side, maybe a really hot mech should be more easily picked up by sensors in the game.  Once again not entirely canon, but you would think a hunk of metal that you could cook a porterhouse to well done on would be a little easier to pick up than an ice cold mech.

[Taemien]

I agree on the over ride.

What i never understood in the books though was the fact that machine would blow up or have system damage LONG before a mechwarrior actually passed out and died from the heat.

The simple fact is that machinery and electrical systems should be much more resistant to "heat damage" than the pilot even with a coolant vest.  Sure the core body temp of the pilot can be explain away with the coolant vest but damit, (s)he's got a tight fitting neuro helmet that never depicted as having good ventilation!  All that extra heat to the head would cause massive  problems with at least vision, equilibrium (this should jack up the mechs balance as the neuro helmet fed gyroscope info is now compromised), and have a high possibility of just passing out.

This could easily be explained by the cockpit life support systems, whether its completely canon or not is another story.  I would like to see the heat have some physiological effects on the pilot somehow (The first thing that comes to mind is wavy heat mirage type effect on screen).

I would also like to see heat build up effect sensors and electronics both temporarily and permanently.  The heat could mess with your sensor systems dramatically, maybe lock up masc, shut the systems down even prior to mech shut down, or just melt your gizmo to nothin. 

And on  the reverse side, maybe a really hot mech should be more easily picked up by sensors in the game.  Once again not entirely canon, but you would think a hunk of metal that you could cook a porterhouse to well done on would be a little easier to pick up than an ice cold mech.

That is canon, the life support system does keep the MW from being hurt by an overheating mech. When this is damaged he takes 1-2 points of damage depending on how badly the mech is overheating. Damage to a MW means he or she has a chance of falling uncontentious.

Perhaps when the head is destroyed from ejecting an overheating mech (badly badly overheating) would gib the pilot?

[EvilMD]

I'm not a fan of taking armor damage from running hot. Sensor malfunctions, shimmering view, ammo cooking off are all good suggestions.

[(TLL)CapperDeluxe]

I'm not a fan of taking armor damage from running hot. Sensor malfunctions, shimmering view, ammo cooking off are all good suggestions.

sounds good to me, now how do we simulate swamp ass?   I still think the possibility of a core overload explosion is good to maintain, so long as its clear where that point is (unlike MW4)

[HAARP]

Has been discussed before I made a thread back when 0.2 was the public release:
http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/forum/index.php/topic,9156.msg129712.html#msg129712

I'll just copy the important parts here

Also, there are no repercussion for overheating mechs. Sure, when you reach the critical point, armor plating starts dropping from your mech (lol!) but below that, whatever. Skin me for comparing this to BTU and CBT, but a mech that runs hot has a lot of problems to deal with. The reactor reduces its power output in order to keep the mech from going kablam, causing a reduction in running speed. Targeting systems go haywire (MW3 had a nice effect for this), ammo may start cooking off resulting in devastating ammo explosions. The MechWarrior starts sweating like crazy, vision gets blurry, reaction times are slower, hell, he may even pass out.

    * Implement effects when at high heat. Scrambling HUD, blurry vision, slower running speed and maybe ammo-explosions

[Leeko]

Once (if) the aforementioned weapon melting and ammo exploding side-effects are implemented I'm sure the subtle armor damage will be taken away.

[Deathbane]

Would be even cooler if ammo explosions etc were randomised, with an increasing chance the hotter the mech is for ammo explosion. This would allow you to run exceptionally hot and run a real risk of explosion, but be able to pull out insanely lucky retreats/repeated alphastrikes to brag about after the event if you re one of the lucky ones.

[(TLL)CapperDeluxe]

Would be even cooler if ammo explosions etc were randomised, with an increasing chance the hotter the mech is for ammo explosion. This would allow you to run exceptionally hot and run a real risk of explosion, but be able to pull out insanely lucky retreats/repeated alphastrikes to brag about after the event if you re one of the lucky ones.

I think randomization is actually something thats to be avoided where possible here since we're not rolling d6's and whatnot

[Deathbane]

Would be even cooler if ammo explosions etc were randomised, with an increasing chance the hotter the mech is for ammo explosion. This would allow you to run exceptionally hot and run a real risk of explosion, but be able to pull out insanely lucky retreats/repeated alphastrikes to brag about after the event if you re one of the lucky ones.

I think randomization is actually something thats to be avoided where possible here since we're not rolling d6's and whatnot

But it actually benefits gameplay. Simply being told *cross x heat and ammo explosion* is not particularly simful... i should be able to push my mech into a danger zone and run a risk, not simply be magically told the exact instant my ammo is going to cook off.

Thats separate from the past suggestions i think you are refering towards.

[Barcode]

sounds good to me, now how do we simulate swamp ass?   I still think the possibility of a core overload explosion is good to maintain, so long as its clear where that point is (unlike MW4)

Easy - play the game in a small room with the door closed and the blinds open. Your CPUs will slag in minutes.

But it actually benefits gameplay. Simply being told *cross x heat and ammo explosion* is not particularly simful... i should be able to push my mech into a danger zone and run a risk, not simply be magically told the exact instant my ammo is going to cook off.

Thats separate from the past suggestions i think you are refering towards.

The reason randomization hurts gameplay is because this game is intensely skill-dependent and that most of the enjoyment stems from the clear cause-and-effect of one's actions in-game. Leaving things up to chance, whether it'd make more sense or not (I think it wouldn't; why wouldn't an ammo manufacturer test his ammunition for flashpoint when it's going to be used in a machine that can hit 1000 degrees Celcius?), creates a random element in games that are supposed to be determined by skill, giving frustration to all. (I'm not particularly happy about random crits either; they should be killshot location/how much into the negatives the shot puts the enemy 'Mech, or, Iunno, something else).

The critical heat factor would give higher skill warriors something new to worry about that still depends on skill, further improve the usability of auto-shutdown for regular pilots (rather than being a Critical Annoyance), and provide long-term effects to heat abuse (should, say, the critical heat dissipation rate be noticeably lower than the critical heat buildup rate).

[Virt]

A random element is realistic.

In real life, manufacturers rate their products to be safe to a particular temperature.   But that doesn't meant the product will fail at one degree higher than the nominal temperature.   In fact, the point at which that product will fail will vary significantly according to random qualities in the components used.

As a Mech pilot I want to know the safe operating temperature, and I want to be able risk going over that safe temperature if I think battle circumstances warrant it.   The higher I go over, and the longer I'm over, the great the risk.

So a degree of randomisation is not only realistic, it also adds a further strategic consideration to being a Mechwarrior.

[HAARP]

Capper, Barcode: You guys also throw away food the second it reaches the expiration date, do you?