MechWarrior: Living Legends

Community Activities => Community Involvement => Topic started by: Ravir on April 03, 2009, 07:08:24 AM

Title: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Ravir on April 03, 2009, 07:08:24 AM
Here's a question for you BT history buffs out there.  Outside of using humanoid hands, what methods have Mechs used in BT lore to defend themselves from an elemental who got in too close for their primary weapons?  What do you do when that nasty clanner freak jumps out from under a rock and starts wailing on your back armor?

Remember, you can't submit your own ideas... the challenge is to find an original BT reference.  A pie topped with whipped 42 with a creamy 3.14159 filling goes to the most entertaining solution from books, tabletop, or other official BT/MechWarrior sources!
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: KiloEcho on April 03, 2009, 01:17:35 PM
Test of Vengeance

Jake Kabrinski takes on a Draconis Combine Atlas one on one.  He jets up to it, only to be swatted with an Atlas punch.  Unfortunately, the Atlas falls down due to the swing.  When the mech gets back up the pilot learns to his horror that Jake is on the back armor firing away.  After a futile use of the rear mounted Medium Lasers, the pilots gets a brilliant idea:  fall backwards.  So he jams the foot pedals and causes his Mech to fall on it's back to crush the Elemental.  Almost worked, but unfortunately when the pilot regained consciousness, he saw a very battered Jake blast through his cockpit and stab him with the claw.

Elemental 1, Mech 0.  Better luck next time!
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: (TLL) Heretic on April 03, 2009, 01:38:15 PM
You don't let the little buggers get in that position in the 1st place, Mercs who know their onions prefer to sacrifice a half ton or two to mount their own bug repellant, with reference from the Tech Manual:

Anti-Battle Armor Pod

First developed by Clan Wolf-in-Exile in 3068, the Anti-Battle Armor Pod or B-Pod functions like an Anti-Personnel Pod except that it is designed to blast through the armor of battle suits. It does this by using explosive bomblets instead of shrapnel.


Never leave the hanger without one  8)
And for those who have never heard of an A-Pod before here's the ref:

Anti-Personnel Pod

An Anti-Personnel Pod is a piece of equipment designed specifically for 'Mechs. A-Pods are carried in the leg(s) of a 'Mech and can be used to attack conventional infantry that is occupying the same area as the 'Mech. It is a one-shot weapon and cannot be reused.

A-Pods were developed by the Clans, but were rapidly adapted by the Inner Sphere. No matter which technology base is used, the half-ton A-Pods function identically.

An Anti-Personnel Pod can only be used against ground units in the same hex as the 'Mech. It deals 1d6 points of damage to conventional infantry and has no effect on other units.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Stahlseele on April 03, 2009, 02:04:23 PM
Then unblood Phelan not Kell anymore but Wolf allready used a Trap laid by an Elemental against him.
Elemental had filled up building with Gas, firing his lazor out from behind mirrored windows using a valve to keep the gas from going boom.
Phelan used feedback from speakers and microphones on his mech to get the mirrored windows to shatter so he could see the elemental without going into the building.
once he can see the elemental, he fires his own lazor into the building, making it go boom.

Some other Mechwarrior who had Elementals hanging off of his mechs did something that was pretty hardcore.
He jumped straight up, making the elementals hold on to his mech for all it's worth, then switched off the jets.
he let his mech drop and only just before impact on ground he gave a blast again. Hitting the ground pretty hard.
efectively shaking off any battle armor that might have still been there after that ride.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Masakari on April 03, 2009, 04:27:51 PM
You can self destruct and get rid of them
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: ARES on April 03, 2009, 04:46:12 PM
In the first book of the Blood of Kerenky trilogy. Its Shin Yodamas first encounter with Eementals. It says that the exploding core of a Battlemech is like a warm summer rain to other mechs, but has very destructive impact on the Elementals standing to close to that exploding Mech. It is there wenn he uses his JumpJets to geht rid of an Elemental that is crawling on the head of his Mech.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Ravir on April 04, 2009, 10:41:01 PM
Heretic gets the pie!
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: (TLL) Heretic on April 05, 2009, 12:20:29 AM
Heretic gets the pie!

Thanks, but I'm not touching it...It's a trap!!  :o
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Stormin' on April 05, 2009, 12:52:37 AM
Heretic gets the pie!

Agreed.  Nice reference, Heretic.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Viper on April 06, 2009, 11:26:34 AM
Here's a question for you BT history buffs out there.  Outside of using humanoid hands, what methods have Mechs used in BT lore to defend themselves from an elemental who got in too close for their primary weapons?  What do you do when that nasty clanner freak jumps out from under a rock and starts wailing on your back armor?

Remember, you can't submit your own ideas... the challenge is to find an original BT reference.  A pie topped with whipped 42 with a creamy 3.14159 filling goes to the most entertaining solution from books, tabletop, or other official BT/MechWarrior sources!
In "Black Thorn Blues" it says that the only ways for a mechwarrior to get rid of Elementals sticking to a 'Mech is by:
1) Removing them with 'Mechs hands (if any)
2) Having the Elementals removed by other Mechs (using their hands or weapons). Such a scene is extensively described in the mentioned book.
3) Rolling the 'Mech the ground
4) Using jumpjets. The jolt when starting or at latest when landing does buck off any BA's.

CBT rules provide method 1, 3 and 4 too (see Total Warfare, pages 221 and 222). All three methods can result in a damage to the 'Mech trying to fight of BA's and can or cannot be successul (meaning there is no 100% safe way to get rid of BA's according to the boardgame rules).

Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Flyingdebris on April 09, 2009, 08:11:01 PM
well JJing doesn't sound like it would damage the mech...

running intio deep water supposadly drops BA off you.  God help you though if there are undine elementals in the water.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Landros Radick on April 10, 2009, 12:35:05 AM
well JJing doesn't sound like it would damage the mech...

running intio deep water supposadly drops BA off you.  God help you though if there are undine elementals in the water.

In the last playtest Unearthly was attempting to jump jet ontop of me.. instead I hit the jets and nailed him mid-air. That's one way you can get rid of them :D
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Jetfire on April 11, 2009, 03:49:05 PM
Suggested new armament options (due to this topic^)....

Magnetic Armor Inductor[BA]- allows BA to stick to any mech it physically contacts (after like a 5 sec. charge time), this would also cause the BA's armor effectiveness to be reduced to some level for game balance.  The charge time would allow a mech to shake it, before the charge time is completed.

Armor EMP Pack- allows mech to discharge a micro-sized EMP pulse which fries the MAI^ above.  Consequently, after this is used, the pulse affects (somehow..suggestions?) all energy based weapons and ECM/BAP.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: (TLL)Highlander on April 12, 2009, 12:52:06 AM
well JJing doesn't sound like it would damage the mech...

running intio deep water supposadly drops BA off you.  God help you though if there are undine elementals in the water.

In the last playtest Unearthly was attempting to jump jet ontop of me.. instead I hit the jets and nailed him mid-air. That's one way you can get rid of them :D
Nice!! Would love to see that! New move: Death from below!
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: (TLL)KitLightning on April 12, 2009, 12:59:40 PM
Nice!! Would love to see that! New move: Death from below!

Termite tactics :D
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Valaska on April 12, 2009, 05:19:04 PM
 Victor Davion Steiner's tactics... Get Challenged to a dual but be in a Dire Wolf so this works, have him take his armor off, get out of the mech with a Katana, jump down, refuse the fight, make the Elemental go crazy with realization of his wrong doings and such leading an entire clan to its demise, and then have the guy run up to attack you, and promptly hack his head off.

 Everyone should know the reference! ;)
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: HellHound on April 16, 2009, 10:04:15 PM
Elemental had filled up building with Gas, firing his lazor out from behind mirrored windows using a valve to keep the gas from going boom.
Phelan used feedback from speakers and microphones on his mech to get the mirrored windows to shatter so he could see the elemental without going into the building...

I also remember that one.

It will be possible to use mechs speakers in the game?
it should be a good idea (if people do not abuse of this)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjUtOP1ZMuI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjUtOP1ZMuI)
On this video from Mechwarrior2 can be seen a Ghost Bear clanner roaring with it's Kodiak, after smashing a Vulture with a death from above, a good example of the brutal nature of the clanners.

Anyway, i think there's another way to get rid of Elementals, which consists on getting inside a building, by passing trough its walls, (which is allowed in the table game, suffering damage, etc. -Ref Citytech) or just crash to them.
But i don't know if destroying buildings on that scale should be fine to be implemented here.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Valaska on April 18, 2009, 11:44:50 PM
 Hehe the roar after it freezes in on the Ghost Bears Insignia is just a roar mate, the Kodiak didn't actually make that howling roar sound, although yes he could have if he wanted to on the speakers, and those speakers are supposed to go ear damagingly loud lol.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Bcbear on May 18, 2009, 10:34:32 AM
watch the movie again lol, it roars when it comes out of the snow and surprises the mad dog
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Valaska on May 21, 2009, 11:19:48 AM
watch the movie again lol, it roars when it comes out of the snow and surprises the mad dog

 Oh course on that part but I thought he meant the HOWL lol.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: [CW]Outlaw on July 02, 2009, 11:17:57 AM
Stop drop and roll as David McArthy instructs one of his pilots to do when swarmed by IS Battlearmor.
then again this only works for swarm attacks.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Nebfer on July 09, 2009, 08:48:51 PM
Suggested new armament options (due to this topic^)....

Magnetic Armor Inductor[BA]- allows BA to stick to any mech it physically contacts (after like a 5 sec. charge time), this would also cause the BA's armor effectiveness to be reduced to some level for game balance.  The charge time would allow a mech to shake it, before the charge time is completed.

Like Mag Clamps? Which allready make it hader for BA to "fall off". They also alow BA to ride non Omni units.

Quote
Armor EMP Pack- allows mech to discharge a micro-sized EMP pulse which fries the MAI^ above.  Consequently, after this is used, the pulse affects (somehow..suggestions?) all energy based weapons and ECM/BAP.

B-tech dose have "mech" tazers...
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Guardi4n on July 12, 2009, 11:52:48 PM
Any mech unit worth its money, would have support vechicles in any situation. So id gather the mechjockeys would rely on tanks, APC's, battlesuits and maybe Airsupport to dine on the enemy battlearmour. I always refer to the battles from the JadeFalcon triliogy. They nearly always had support for any mechstars.

Keep the smaller folk around to deal with the othersides smaller folk eh :)
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Moriar on September 26, 2009, 10:01:28 PM
Armor EMP Pack- allows mech to discharge a micro-sized EMP pulse which fries the MAI^ above.  Consequently, after this is used, the pulse affects (somehow..suggestions?) all energy based weapons and ECM/BAP.

B-tech dose have "mech" tazers...

An EMP weapon would only be usable if the Mech using it was shutdown, or it would fry the own Mech's electronics also, not a very subtle way or effective way if you have to engage other units after deploying it, not to mention a very unfair advantage. Due to the fact that after you deploy the EMP its an Instant-win button to any Mech within range. And if you were to make one of those, I seriously doubt anyone would stop at just a BA removal purpose honestly. Neat idea, but just really unbalanced in a world where everything is electronic on the battlefield.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Ashes on October 13, 2009, 11:23:59 AM
-Ashley sits in her Mech as the Elemental gets closer acting on pure will she fires her Laser at its full contect. The Elemental easily Dodges as it takes flight in midair. With the SRM out of ammo and the laser over heated she does the smart thing...She charges at the Elemental...HEAD ON. The Elemental does not know what to think. Seeing a big Heavy 100 ton Mech and a Girl with attitude is the least of its worrys. Up in the sky the Golf ball like drop ships descend and destroying the puny Elemental with its main weapons.-


To me these Giant Golf balls save your ass heaps of times. Am i right? Such as the ending of MechCommander 1 when they destroy all them Madcats ^_^
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Nebfer on October 17, 2009, 07:41:54 AM
Well they can be very powerfull, but they are also some what fragile.

They can easily have the firepower of an assault mech or two, but quite often their armor is not quite capable of withstanding a sustained assault, not to mention that they are an easy target while on the ground.

Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Diablo48 on October 17, 2009, 08:02:07 AM
Well they can be very powerfull, but they are also some what fragile.

They can easily have the firepower of an assault mech or two, but quite often their armor is not quite capable of withstanding a sustained assault, not to mention that they are an easy target while on the ground.

That is of course only if it is a transport.  Some of the assault DropShips out there carry a disturbing amount of weapons and armor.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: =]FC[=Striker on October 28, 2009, 01:45:08 PM
Test of Vengeance

Jake Kabrinski takes on a Draconis Combine Atlas one on one.  He jets up to it, only to be swatted with an Atlas punch.  Unfortunately, the Atlas falls down due to the swing.  When the mech gets back up the pilot learns to his horror that Jake is on the back armor firing away.  After a futile use of the rear mounted Medium Lasers, the pilots gets a brilliant idea:  fall backwards.  So he jams the foot pedals and causes his Mech to fall on it's back to crush the Elemental.  Almost worked, but unfortunately when the pilot regained consciousness, he saw a very battered Jake blast through his cockpit and stab him with the claw.

Elemental 1, Mech 0.  Better luck next time!

I know I am late to the party, but when I read the question the quote is immediately what I thought of. I am glad I didn't have to rummage through my 30 or so novels to find the reference.


Striker
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: CHH Sturmadler on October 29, 2009, 12:27:24 AM
the above quote is remarkable because it is an exception.  Such a thing should not be commonplace.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Rampage on October 30, 2009, 02:01:12 AM
A one on one battle between a mech and an Elemental was indeed a rarity. There were a few instances of it happening in the 25 or so novels that I have read. Victor Steiner-Davion's personnel bodyguard was a female clan Elemental name Tiaret she often accompanied him into battle and took out mechs. The IS mechwarriors lived in fear of the "Toads". The mere suggestion that there were Toads present on the battlefield sent chills of fear through even the bravest of the mech pilots. Normally the balance of power was 5 Elementals = 1 mech.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: (TLL)KitLightning on October 30, 2009, 03:14:27 AM
Tiaret Nevversan ... hmmm :-[ *dreaming*

5 Elementals = 1 mech.

Correct! thou it depends on the Toad ;)
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Stahlseele on November 02, 2009, 10:27:09 AM
5 Elementals can equal 5 Stingers in Terms of Weapons.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: MatthewPryde on December 09, 2009, 12:49:22 PM
The classic strategy for evasion has always been to Jump. A jumping mech creates a tremendous inertial pressure outside, and there is always the off chance you will actually fry the little bastard once it slips back. If they get to the cockpit... well, you better be really good with a sword and revolver. Really good.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: pht on December 28, 2009, 07:04:26 PM
Jump, fall down and thrash, have your buddy pick them off with hands or weapons, pick them off with your hands, smash them off with your arms if you don't have hands, blast them with rear firing weapons if they get in front of them... can't think of any others atm.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: MatthewPryde on December 31, 2009, 10:36:02 AM
bite them
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Ashes on December 31, 2009, 02:49:34 PM
Make love,not war?
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Metal on December 31, 2009, 07:38:20 PM
Make love,not war?

 With you, anytime ;)
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Arghy on January 06, 2010, 08:11:01 AM
Well not technically from BT but def capable in its universe, 1-2 shot smoke launchers loaded with short fuse SRM's with back and front launchers that you can trigger independently. I was personally leading to atleast 1 MG on every single mech/vehicle as its honestly a pittance compared to most ordinance and a single MG with 800 rounds would go a long way to defending yourself against a BA. You could also have your AMS go crazy filling whatever arc it covers with lead to either dissuade the BA or kill off a large group if you have multiple mechs do it.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: [IPA] Bravo Cadett on January 17, 2010, 01:21:06 AM
fighting BA is like fight fire, get down in the dirt and roll ... dont know which novel this quote was but its the right idea

in MW:LL its good if u have 1 or 2 nice mates with flamer, puls laser or mg's who take care of this little guys xD
or someone with a LBX 20, that has to much ammo ... hehehe
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Frosty on January 20, 2010, 06:29:29 PM
Fortunately I'm a tank person, running them over is a pleasant feeling. It's like opening up the first present on Christmas day...and watching it's intestines spring load out of the gift...
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Flyingdebris on January 21, 2010, 12:29:19 AM
i love getting road kills on elementals.   ;D
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Mordegar on January 21, 2010, 02:48:37 AM
How about an armflip?

A lot of Mechs can flip their arms to the back to shoot at someone behind them, what you need is a button for a view to your back and an animation of the arms (if the mech can do it) flipping to the back to shoot at the pesky BA's under your rear armor.

Check some of the fluff and core rules, it's a common tactic.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Frosty on January 21, 2010, 06:29:31 AM
Their mechs not Rock 'n sock em robots.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Stahlseele on January 21, 2010, 07:17:10 PM
Still there are some Mechs that CAN simply flip their arms on their back.
For example, the Jenner, if i am not mistaken.
Basically all mechs without ellbow.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: MatthewPryde on January 22, 2010, 12:04:00 AM
Yeah, the armflip is possible on some mechs, another major tactic is for jump jet enabled mechs to burn off the little things on their back. However the strongest defense against BA has always been the buddy system, if one mech gets jumped, the other one shoots them off. That is way an elemental point tends to fight lone mechs.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: KerenskyIsMyHomeboy on January 22, 2010, 01:03:59 AM
Just hit them with this!

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c115/pandacycle/1259039465612.jpg)

Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: MatthewPryde on January 22, 2010, 10:38:17 AM
Oh if only actuators worked in a mech game. Oh how much kicking I would do. I would be like the Black Knight of monty python. Kicking at my foe once my arms were gone.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: (TLL) Heretic on January 22, 2010, 10:48:58 AM
Oh if only actuators worked in a mech game. Oh how much kicking I would do. I would be like the Black Knight of monty python. Kicking at my foe once my arms were gone.

Of course, as a clanner you'd be in trouble with any physical attack as it's frowned on as dishonourable by you guys.... hence the reason most every Clan omnimech has weapons pods instead of battlespikes like the old Awesome had.

Of the top of my head the only reason that some omnis had hands at all was to pick stuff up and run away, or help loading/unloading stuff.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Gremlich on January 31, 2011, 02:11:22 AM
During the Viet Nam war, I know the favored tactic used by Tankers (in M48s) to remove a swarm of VC was to get on the platoon freq and say "Scratch my back". 7.62mm and .50 cal were useful, I heard, in clearing the top of a tank off.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: =KoS= Tripod on January 31, 2011, 02:18:54 AM
I landed my Uzi on a BA trying to anklebite me by using a small burst of JJ a few days ago
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: =CJW=YalK on January 31, 2011, 03:34:38 AM
The thread necro is stroooooong with this one  ;D
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: VictorMorson on April 14, 2011, 10:50:10 AM
Sadly nowhere in BattleTech does a pilot mutter "You're fired" before blasting an Arrow IV off that an elemental happened to be clamoring over.

(http://images.dailyfill.com/15e26d88ed3c4e8b_a0c2077b38ed958c/o/5.jpg)

Victor Davion Steiner's tactics... Get Challenged to a dual but be in a Dire Wolf so this works, have him take his armor off, get out of the mech with a Katana, jump down, refuse the fight, make the Elemental go crazy with realization of his wrong doings and such leading an entire clan to its demise, and then have the guy run up to attack you, and promptly hack his head off.

 Everyone should know the reference! ;)

That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of.  Was this before or after in the novels that Katrina apparently wanted to have a genetic incest test tube baby with her brother?  Because yeahhhhhhhhhh... I sorta stopped before things got that bad.  I didn't think they could get worse.  I was wrong.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Stahlseele on April 14, 2011, 11:30:16 AM
That was before.
The Incest Genetube Baby was in Dark Age. The Scene above was in the very last Book of the Clan Jaguar Wipeout.
Title: Re: BattleTech History: Mechs vs BA / Elemental
Post by: Gremlich on May 18, 2011, 02:06:12 AM
Fortunately I'm a tank person, running them over is a pleasant feeling. It's like opening up the first present on Christmas day...and watching it's intestines spring load out of the gift...

BA/infantry = road wheel grease

(That's why I never slept on the ground during maneuvers in Germany)