Battle Armor revision

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Knightcrawler

Hmm I dunno then. Should be better than mpPPC at least. Maybe the chart includes splash damage?

Anyway I almost forgot, we could have BA start with your Light MG and no grenades. Then if they buy grenades, the launcher comes with it and replaces the Light MG. They use the same button anyway.

That also circumvents the APC bug.

Marius

Good day.
A series of points covering a number of subjects currently covered.

1.Grenade to SRM
It goes against the core enjoyable mechanic of risk/reward in BA play.
You no longer have to be touching the mech to do your massive damage, 4 srm reload would be busting your load real early and either suicide or walk back and would be dull.

Pilot ejection Bear.
It's a primary anti BA weapon in a world where all weapons are Anti BA weapons with a good shot.
As stated previously the small laser was good all round, master of nothing in particular and still gives a good fighting change.
See:

The player fights the good fight and is engaged by a fully armed BA, on his last legs he ejects and engages, his chances are slim but not impossible, they duel and eventually a victor emerges, heart racing all the way.
It is a definitively a sidearm.
With a bear either player would be dead in 15 seconds.
Its dull.

Flamer weaponry.
What I believe to be the key here is a rework of the inferno mechanic.
At current it hits them with a heat burst, while good, it's never going to be enough.
ADD however an exterior temp build up, a thermal coating that perhaps with a minute/submersion dissapates but in that increases the mechs bottom line temperature.
Coupled with a fighting mech and maybe the flamethrower weapon itself, a determined and well aimed BA could cause a mech to cease function or atleast hamper one or few for a bigger fight with its allies.

More to come soon.

haarp

Marius It goes against the core enjoyable mechanic of risk/reward in BA play.
You no longer have to be touching the mech to do your massive damage

Hence why one idea is to make SRM damage depend on flight time. Point blank = most damage.

4 srm reload would be busting your load real early and either suicide or walk back and would be dull.

The exact same already applies to throwing around 4 C8 charges.

DeimosEvotec

I just found out that getting in and out of any asset also prevents the grenade bug.

Knightcrawler

haarp No, it doesn't. You can carry 8 C8 which are each stronger than your proposed missiles, 5 Inferno, and 3 NARC. Add to that the frustration of random interception of LAMS which cannot be bypassed completely. Most importantly, you always have SSRMs as current BA. You are talking about a proposal with a lower skill ceiling AND lower DPS AND lower survivability.

haarp

Knightcrawler Yes it does. The number of missiles you can carry is yet to be determined. You grasp at this one straw a lot.

Add to that the frustration of random interception of LAMS which cannot be bypassed completely.

Compared to the much much more frequent frustration of grenades not sticking? Also you can bypass any AMS by getting close enough.

Most importantly, you always have SSRMs as current BA.

You'd lose them as soon as you become a pilot.

lower skill ceiling

Oh snap, I didn't consider this. Gotta figure out how to make the game even more difficult and bug-infested for beginners. Our player retention rate is not horrible enough already. Having the skill ceiling involve figuring out how to work around Cryengine bugs is a mighty terrific goal.

lower DPS

fake news.

lower survivability

Now you're making things up. Higher, if anything, due to not having to get close if you are ok with not having full damage potential.

Marius

Getting close is one of the prime mechanics of BA and should not be deviated from.
Risk/reward and all that along with threat calculation from pilots, they know a BA does the most damage when its on them, not 50/100m.
If SRM becomes ammo dependant whilst being buffed to C8 levels of damage, it will simply be a slaughter for any mech atempting to cap a base with a BA, especially if that BA can use a building, they wouldnt even need to buy primary weapons if the base is suddenly lost, jump out and brawl with srms, that would be probably the low and unenjoyable skill level Knight is refering to.
Lots of people attack bases where people are still spawning, if those BA can suddenly jump out with that much damage and rocket them without having to purchase anything in the time it takes to cap... game over for those mechs unless they were uncontested on the way to the base, which is unlikely and hopeful.

I believe an alternative method will have to be devised due to the reactions of three BA mains, however more input is welcome.

EDIT:

Also not to mention whatever wild explanation we would muster to cover the immence damage disparity between BA srm and mech.

haarp

Good point, @Marius, what about the forward base spawns.

We could make it so that BA do not spawn with missiles at all. They'd have to buy them, just as they have to buy primary weapons, which costs time and leaves the BA vulnerable for a short while.

For brawling, BA will now have to spawn, buy their weapons, go outside. For maximum effect, they have to get within knife-range of a mech and fire their SRMs. They have now dealt moderate damage (which, I remind everyone, is tweakable). Meanwhile, the mech pilot has an opportunity to get rid of the toad while its SRMs reload.

It would change mechanics near forward bases, for sure. But I don't think it would be game breaking.

Marius Also not to mention whatever wild explanation we would muster to cover the immence damage disparity between BA srm and mech.

We already have this disparity with the piss laser, which deals more damage than a mech-sized HLL. It's easy, a single MWLL BA represents a star of BT BAs. That's all the handwaiving we always needed

Zweistein000

Has any thought been given to the claw?

Perhaps instead of grenades sticking to battlemechs we could have BA using the claw to stick themselves onto battlelechs. Knowing how mechs move in MWLL this would definitely require a great deal of skill to execute but with a high reward (one you're attached the mechwarrrior is screwed unless an ally fires at him to get you off), thus giving the BA that "High skill" that Knighcrawler is so afraid of loosing. I do recall reading somewhere that BA did do that and it was one of the things that scared Mechwarriors the most.

Also is there any chance of making BA not explode if they are riding on a vehicle?

haarp

It's a moot point anyway. Wandering Samurai tried and failed to make it work since the very beginning. Cryengine is just too buggy. I would very much like to be able to ride on friendlies tho, that would allow whole squads of BA to arrive at the frontlines quickly. fun times.

Zweistein000

Also is there any chance of making BA not explode if they are riding on a vehicle?

Possibly. If we define zones on a vehicle (top, front/back) we might be able to disable collission damage for some of them.

Marius

Zweist, im afraid the claw is a whole other discussion.
You would be incorrect in saying it would maintain a high skill for use, it'd make it obscenely easy if you could just latch onto someones back in safety.

It is lore friendly and I have frequently stated my desire for one, but I do not feel being able to latch onto enemy mechs would make anyone happy unless over all damage was lowered, which would be fun for noone.

Zweistein000

haarp Sad times about he claw.

Marius Have you ever tried to jump onto a moving Mech? It wouldn't be as easy as you think.

Marius

Zweistein000 Have you ever tried to jump onto a moving Mech? It wouldn't be as easy as you think.

Not to divert from the conversation, but do you know the players and their reputations who are speaking in this chat?
Atop that, I am unfamiliar with your experience or even your name.

To answer your question, yes.

Zweistein000

Marius I've been around since before MWLL initial release. I'd count myself as fairly experienced though I haven't been as active since the new team took over.

The point is as long as the mech is moving, it would never be as easy as "just latching on enemy mechs". But this argument is pointless anyway if Cry engine doesn't allow for the claw to work.