Author Topic: Another exploit report.  (Read 10759 times)

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Offline Come and See

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Re: Another exploit report.
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2010, 11:44:40 PM »
TLDR: Some people don't understand how cbill sharing works and end up making cheat accusations.

TLDR: You didn't read anything posted.

TLDR: Sharing Cbill's at game start so you get an unfair advantage over the other team apparently isn't cheating.

TLDR: Cheaters never admit they cheat. They call it "game mechanics."

TLDR: I apologized for accusing an entire clan of cheating over a few players actions.

Offline -SM-SUCKER

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Re: Another exploit report.
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2010, 12:08:16 AM »
But sharing C-Bills is a wanted feature. It is ment to reward a team that puts together their spare cash.

I myself almost always ask for some spare once I join because I can help my team even better with more cash from the beginning.
Or when I am there from the start and I feel like BA I will offer my spare C-Bills to anyone who wants them.

Offline Dragonlord

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Re: Another exploit report.
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2010, 01:22:51 AM »
I find the system useful.
I dont ask for help so very often, I prefer to work my way up on my own.
But when someone ask for money I usually give some if I have some to spare.
If I have large amounts to spare, I usually ask if someone need some to try an help those who are less fortunate.


I will not name names here, but unfortunately there are ways to exploit the system and I have seen it done.
I have seen 2-3 players work together to each one field assault mechs from the start of a match, by exploiting the system.
I find such behavior distasteful and will urge everyone not to do it

But for someone to go BA and send all their money to another player is not cheating, thats the way the system is intended to work I believe.
As mentioned above, if you think someone is cheating, either screenshot it or FRAPS it if you can and notify someone who can deal with it about it.
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Offline ratbuddy

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Re: Another exploit report.
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2010, 01:41:21 AM »
TLDR: Some people don't understand how cbill sharing works and end up making cheat accusations.

TLDR: You didn't read anything posted.

TLDR: Sharing Cbill's at game start so you get an unfair advantage over the other team apparently isn't cheating.

TLDR: Cheaters never admit they cheat. They call it "game mechanics."

TLDR: I apologized for accusing an entire clan of cheating over a few players actions.

You just don't get it. I was in that game. They just pooled cbills to field a LT early. No exploitation or cheating happened. You got owned and made a QQ thread.

Offline Come and See

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Re: Another exploit report.
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2010, 03:45:38 AM »
TLDR: Some people don't understand how cbill sharing works and end up making cheat accusations.

TLDR: You didn't read anything posted.

TLDR: Sharing Cbill's at game start so you get an unfair advantage over the other team apparently isn't cheating.

TLDR: Cheaters never admit they cheat. They call it "game mechanics."

TLDR: I apologized for accusing an entire clan of cheating over a few players actions.

You just don't get it. I was in that game. They just pooled cbills to field a LT early. No exploitation or cheating happened. You got owned and made a QQ thread.

This isn't the WoW forums so you don't need to talk to people like that. Don't post if you don't have anything constructive.

Offline Deathbane

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Re: Another exploit report.
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2010, 03:48:41 AM »
TLDR: Some people don't understand how cbill sharing works and end up making cheat accusations.

TLDR: You didn't read anything posted.

*shrug*

TLDR: Sharing Cbill's at game start so you get an unfair advantage over the other team apparently isn't cheating.

No, because your team can also share cbills. Its therefore not a cheat, and is part of the early round game mechanic. Your team can choose to field a larger numbe rof assets, or fewer, more powerful assets at the round start. Just because your team chose the option that had them at a disadvantage does not mean the other team was cheating.

TLDR: Cheaters never admit they cheat. They call it "game mechanics."

If the game allows it, its technically not a cheat, but an exploit, and only if that 'exploit' was not intentional by the developers. In this case, sharing c-bills at the round start is an intended feature, so it is neither.

TLDR: I apologized for accusing an entire clan of cheating over a few players actions.

Im glad that you apologised to SJ. Also, i would remind TLL And SJ to try and keep any differences they have between each other to a civil level, we want clans playing the mod and enjoying it, not starting obvious OR covert flame wars.

You could move this to ideas and suggestions if you want to talk about the unfairness of such a mechanic, as that would be a much better place to discuss your current issues with it.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2010, 03:58:16 AM by Deathbane »
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Offline (TLL)Siilk

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Re: Another exploit report.
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2010, 11:15:13 AM »
*Saw a thread, full of fuss about how c-bills sharing in pub games is unfair*





But seriously, I know how facing a more organised team in a pub game could be frustrating and seemingly unfair. LT, as well as Huit prime, is quite easy to buy at the beginning of the round with one or two players going dedicated BA. No magic here, no cheating, no exploits. I remember playing vs a team which saw our side fielding numerous sparrowhawks and hawkmothes at the start and immediately pooled their cache to get a Huit prime, which ripped our flyboys to shreds, thus giving the opposite team a good score and cbills right away. But it was our own fault not to adapting to this tactic of theirs, not some kind of unfair advantage.

 I must add that I know SJ crowd good enough to say that it's very unlikely for any of them to cheat in a pub game. While my personal opinion on this matter could differ from one of our clan high-ups, it is what I think and, with all that accusation of SJ, I feel I should state my opinion.



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Offline Freakazoid

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Re: Another exploit report.
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2010, 07:49:17 AM »
I honestly think nobody should be able to send no more than 5K for the first 5 minutes of game as well.

I like this idea as well.

Also good to see someone calling out clanners, even if everyone's relying on heresay and plausible deniability. Gotta keep them on their toes, let 'em know they need to do a better job at hiding their exploits strategies.

Offline 4204ME

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Re: Another exploit report.
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2010, 08:47:06 AM »
*hands Riker a razor with his left hand while hiding the habinero sauce he just dipped it in with his right*
*turns around and continues working on his strategy to bomb snowball in rude and obnoxious ways*

Offline Snowball

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Re: Another exploit report.
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2010, 09:12:34 AM »
*turns around and continues working on his strategy to bomb snowball in rude and obnoxious ways*

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Offline MerfMerf

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Re: Another exploit report.
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2010, 11:54:20 AM »
Also good to see someone calling out clanners, even if everyone's relying on heresay and plausible deniability. Gotta keep them on their toes, let 'em know they need to do a better job at hiding their exploits strategies.

O_o
Name calling based on heresay is a good thing? Or am I reading that wrong?

A few notes on strategy contra exploit.
First thing to consider is that even using an exploit like connect->give cash->reconnect would be 100% ineffective in any unit game and thus not attractive to any units (even if one disregard the whole aspect of it being an exploit and as such should not be used). Unit games are no respawn and a disconnected player is out of the game if he/she disconnects after the match has begun.
In regards to actual strategies there are not very many that serve a purpose in a public game. The ones that are usable are not ones that are needed to kept secret. Its basically things like moving together and focusing fire on the correct target that is useful in a public game. Stuff on the micro-scale rather on the macro-scale so to speak; the things skilled pub-players do by default as they walk next to other teammates.

/Merf - Fear the mighty fish: ¿<><

Offline MasterOhh

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Re: Another exploit report.
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2010, 03:10:13 PM »
I think C-Bill pooling early into a round is pretty lame.
Esp. the Huit Prime can cut through any light mech like a hot knife through butter and is so heavily armored that most light mechs can hardly scratch its paint.

The whole balance is destroyed by such actions for the rest of the round because the team that rolls out the heavy stuff right from the start will dominate the battlefield, get tons of kills, get tons of cbills, use the cbills to buy more heavy stuff for the rest of the team, dominate even more ...........

90% of all times such tactics are applied by clans, because they have the communication and teamwork to do it.
(ever tried to talk random pubbi players into giving you all their cbills at the start of a round? good luck with that)
I wonder if they realise how much they damage the MWLL community with such actions? People who get gang raped by such tactics will probably leave the server and maybe MWLL at all. Even I, as a hardcore MWLL fan, left a server and quit playing MWLL for an evening, because the other team decided to field some Lokis vs all the light mechs on my team.

Offline HAARP

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Re: Another exploit report.
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2010, 03:39:25 PM »
I semi-agree. The real problem I see is Clanstacking. Clan goes on team 1, random pubbers on team 2. Clan shares cash and rapes team 2 with ease. Team 2 members are starting to leave, increasing rape on the remaining players. No Clanner bothers to switch.

Happened countless of times. When I tried to talk to them it's "ololol our server". I'm looking at you, 7WD -_-
Sure, it's your server. Doesn't make stacking any less pathetic though.

(I don't have anything against sharing money)
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Offline MerfMerf

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Re: Another exploit report.
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2010, 03:44:40 PM »
I'm a bit split in regards to early CBill sharing.
like you say it can give one team a huge advantage. On the other hand it does rewards teamplay which is a stated goal by the devs. My favourite phase of most games is when most people are in mediums but there are some on the field in heavies. So ideally for me would be anything that could prolong that section of the game, though I am not sure CBill sharing work for or against this.

Regarding clans/units using this more then others I have no real numbers to go on. Kinda hard to obtain. but units do have a teamplay focus at their core so I find it likely that your statement is true. What I do not agree with is that it requires some noteworthy means of communication or teamwork to pull it off. Like Snowball pointed out all it takes is a single BA-player that does not load up on grenades to donate you its money and you can get the prime. The very first spawn it can be hard to pull off since a lot of players buy their assets very quickly and thus there is no one to give money too for the BA players. But for the second wave its often possible to find someone you can give money too so they can bring out something bigger. One wave does not make a huge difference on team scores I think. Perhaps I have just been lucky in finding teams with players that read the team-chat?

You mention gang-raped which implies multiple people in extra expensive equipment. This I have hardly seen at all. Not as either affiliated or unaffiliated player. When there is donations going on it usually seems to be to get a single big asset I think. Again, this may just be luck/unluck on my end of course.

In more general terms regarding community/player base this raise an interesting issue. Can one expect one portion of the player base to stop doing what they consider is fun to promote another portion of the player base? What grounds is to be used to decide this? Don't get me wrong, I definitely prefer even matches and quite frankly get bored if the fighting is too one sided. But using teamplay in a team oriented game is what I find fun, and if I where to not do that then I could as well quit playing. I much prefer instead to switch team in case the fighting get unbalanced instead of trying to limit the amount of teamplay I do. Unfortunately this is not always possible and others may beat you to it meaning a switch would make it very unbalanced in pure numbers. Also I can feel loath to switch to a team I can see repeatedly fail to employ any semblance of teamplay and/or prefer to not move beyond their the immediate surroundings of their base. Experience tell me that switching to those teams will hardly change the balance at all (one player can only do so much) and will ultimately be a boring experience for me as well. In these cases I might just disconnect and switch to another server or find something else to do for a while if the time remaining is long.

Regarding stacking.
Again I agree with an unbalanced fight is undesirable and boring, but I can see how this happens. Friends like to play together. Simple as that. Also the "our server -> our rules" has some merit and as long as there are alternatives one can always switch. Still having the right to do something doesn't make the resulting fight any more fun... and an empty server is definitely not fun. A unit playing on the same side does not automatically mean sharing of resources to any extend more then in any decent pub game where people actually ask for money, but this arguably does not necessarily change the fact that a stacked team might stomp a team of pubbers. I've found teams stacked with skilled pub players too though stomping the opposition... Think is, when the teams start looking unbalanced its not the high-scoring players that are most likely to switch. They think "I was on this team from the start, and I'm owning in this mech! I don't want to move. Someone else have to do it" and those with not so much score think "I might as well change. I have nothing to loose.". With all said I advocate even teams performance wise. Much more fun fights that way. How to achieve it though is not always an easy question to answer.

/Merf - Your fun is worth less then my fun! ::)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 03:54:08 PM by MerfMerf »

Offline Warrio

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Re: Another exploit report.
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2010, 05:30:31 AM »
I semi-agree. The real problem I see is Clanstacking. Clan goes on team 1, random pubbers on team 2. Clan shares cash and rapes team 2 with ease. Team 2 members are starting to leave, increasing rape on the remaining players. No Clanner bothers to switch.

Happened countless of times. When I tried to talk to them it's "ololol our server". I'm looking at you, 7WD -_-
Sure, it's your server. Doesn't make stacking any less pathetic though.

(I don't have anything against sharing money)
Firstly, let me make an important clarification.  This is the internet.

We are not clanners or mechwarriors, we do not fight play for honour or glory or the fate of our people, we do it for fun.
To this end winning is fun for those who are winning and as such, team stacking/pubstomping/premaking/rolling has been around as long as competitive style games have been around and probably longer.  They are a fact of life and rather than seeking to rally against this force or nature let us instead work with it.  Most of us probably participate in market economies to a greater or lesser degree and as such we probably have a base understanding of supply and demand.
If you demand fun and believe that you can only achieve this through winning then why not learn from those who you have observed winning and form a clan.  In this way you can evolve yourself to compete with these clans which you seem so willing to complain about and you don't need to call for rule changes or mechanic changes just because you're unwilling to change yourself.