Author Topic: Would you be clan or IS?  (Read 10369 times)

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Offline Thoman Coston

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Re: Would you be clan or IS?
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2011, 03:50:19 PM »
Clan of course. The only true advanced civilization where it is ruled by the competent (with view exceptions) , while the majority of humanity (IS) has fallen back into a dark, primitive and corrupt monarchy where any random idiot with the right relations can rule a planet.

In the Clans, the warrior caste provide security and the scientist caste run and control  a significant portion of  the civilian life. Everything is engineered and planned, even reproduction. It is an almost perfect society.  :)
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Offline SquareSphere

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Re: Would you be clan or IS?
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2011, 05:20:41 PM »
IS isn't so bad, it varies widely from planet to planet.  I envision that living on Outreach would be VASTLY different then lets say living on Sian.

Offline [IPA] Thalamus

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Re: Would you be clan or IS?
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2011, 05:23:27 PM »
In the Clans, the warrior caste provide security and the scientist caste run and control  a significant portion of  the civilian life. Everything is engineered and planned, even reproduction. It is an almost perfect society.  :)


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Offline SquareSphere

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Re: Would you be clan or IS?
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2011, 05:28:00 PM »
uh actually the only controlled breeding in clan society are the warriors, everyone else in the other castes are freeborn.

Offline Thoman Coston

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Re: Would you be clan or IS?
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2011, 05:17:41 AM »
No, even Freeborn reproduction is also controlled by the scientist caste. Which couples can reproduce is controlled by the scientist caste. They even assign which female and male freeborn are encouraged to produce an offspring together , etc. That way the whole society be it trueborn or freeborn don't reproduce at random, their genetic quality is controlled. The clans as a whole despise waste , thus random reproduction is considered a waste by the general population. For trueborns it goes even further, since they are all created in the lab and grown in artificial wombs, thus they consider it disgusting to reproduce a naturally.
 
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Offline AlfalphaCat

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Re: Would you be clan or IS?
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2011, 07:45:41 AM »
Sounds like a sad and 'lifeless' society to me.  They are so perfect and advanced that they don't like making 'the beast with two backs' no more.  pitty... :)

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Offline Xarg Talasko

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Re: Would you be clan or IS?
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2011, 08:27:25 AM »
This is a serious misconception that MUST be addressed! To put it bluntly... Clanners love fapping. The thing is... they have contraceptive implants, to prevent wasteful freeborns (warrior has to drop out of training to deal with childbirth, and the few months where the warrior would be too pregnant to train/fight, wasting the training, not to mention the personal bond that might be forged which would be an anomaly among the warriors who sometimes never even meet their geneparents). Most sibko member's first sexual experiences are with each other, and sex is treated differently in the Clans than it is in the Inner Sphere/irl.

To a Warrior caste member, sex is a stress relieving leisure activity, though it can be used as a punishment too, like when Star Commander Joanna repeatedly calls Aidan against his will to bone the crap out of her. There are some rules on sex, sex between members of different castes is usually frowned upon, even sex between trueborn and freeborn warriors (Though Ravill Pryde had no issues trying to get into Diana (Aidan's freeborn daughter to Peri, a warrior who flushed out of training and became a scientist)). Love, as a concept, is quite foreign to trueborns, who mostly (there are exceptions) have a very strong Esprit de Corps in place of Love, but it can happen.

This issue is even dealt with in the novel Lethal Heritage, when Phelan Kell is taken prisoner by Clan Wolf, and shares a mutual attraction with a trueborn named Ranna. He gets really cut up inside when his cellmates find Ranna boning Vlad, and it takes Anastasius Focht to explain to him the difference in what sex means to the Clans. Ranna had been boning Vlad while trying to understand the alien concept of loving Phelan.

tl;dr

Clan warriors like to have sex. It just means something different to them.


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Offline AlfalphaCat

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Re: Would you be clan or IS?
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2011, 08:53:27 AM »
This is a serious misconception that MUST be addressed! To put it bluntly... Clanners love fapping. The thing is... they have contraceptive implants, to prevent wasteful freeborns (warrior has to drop out of training to deal with childbirth, and the few months where the warrior would be too pregnant to train/fight, wasting the training, not to mention the personal bond that might be forged which would be an anomaly among the warriors who sometimes never even meet their geneparents). Most sibko member's first sexual experiences are with each other, and sex is treated differently in the Clans than it is in the Inner Sphere/irl.

To a Warrior caste member, sex is a stress relieving leisure activity, though it can be used as a punishment too, like when Star Commander Joanna repeatedly calls Aidan against his will to bone the crap out of her. There are some rules on sex, sex between members of different castes is usually frowned upon, even sex between trueborn and freeborn warriors (Though Ravill Pryde had no issues trying to get into Diana (Aidan's freeborn daughter to Peri, a warrior who flushed out of training and became a scientist)). Love, as a concept, is quite foreign to trueborns, who mostly (there are exceptions) have a very strong Esprit de Corps in place of Love, but it can happen.

This issue is even dealt with in the novel Lethal Heritage, when Phelan Kell is taken prisoner by Clan Wolf, and shares a mutual attraction with a trueborn named Ranna. He gets really cut up inside when his cellmates find Ranna boning Vlad, and it takes Anastasius Focht to explain to him the difference in what sex means to the Clans. Ranna had been boning Vlad while trying to understand the alien concept of loving Phelan.

tl;dr

Clan warriors like to have sex. It just means something different to them.

Rgr That!  So, it's like an ancient Terran 'hippie' commune?  That dude shoulda laser pistoled that whore that forced him to bang her.  Would that have been kosher, in Clan society?  Just some honest questions from an ignorant Inner Spheriod trying to understand 'the Clans'. :)

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Offline Xarg Talasko

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Re: Would you be clan or IS?
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2011, 09:39:22 AM »
Not really, that's just how things are done in the Clans. A superior officer has 'the right' to ask a subordinate to visit his/her quarters during downtime, though I think it can be refused under some conditions. A subordinate asking a superior for a coupling would be very very unusual and probably unorthodox, and between people of the same sibko/rank it's a mutual agreement. Shooting Joanna for forcing him to give it to her would have probably had some incredibly harsh consequences for Aidan, unless perhaps it was in a Trial of Grievance/Refusal over the matter, and the manner of combat was unaugmented with laser pistols.


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Offline Thoman Coston

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Re: Would you be clan or IS?
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2011, 10:15:16 AM »
Though calling a TOG over such a petty matter will most likely be dismissed by the Commanding Officer, considered a waste of resources. Clan warriors can not randomly call a Trial of Grievance or Refusal, otherwise the society would descent into anarchy. Also not to forget, Aidan was only a cadet when Star Captain Joanna summoned him to her quarters for sex.

As for among warriors, they are very open about coupling. A clan warrior would invite another warrior very straight forwardly if he/she wants to engage in sexual intercourse. Actually it is quite funny in the IS during the invasion of the Clans, as an IS freeborn would be offended when  a Clan freeborn approached her/him and said "Come, couple with me tonight"  ;D

Another note; civilian castes have plenty of trueborns as well. Only a small portion of trueborns graduate as warriors. The warrior caste makes up only 1% of the Clan society.  Many trueborns enter the scientist caste and merchant caste (especially within the Clan Diamond Shark where it is common for trueborn warriors to retire into the merchant caste resulting in a very close cooperation between the warrior and merchant caste and those ex-warriors can be recalled to active duty when needed).
Freeborns population is the highest in the the labourer caste. The reason the Clans still have freeborns is due to the fact that the iron wombs can not keep up with the demands for producing more people. So the compromise is to continue to practice natural reproduction but under the control of the scientist caste, to ensure some degree Quality Control   :)
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Offline Xarg Talasko

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Re: Would you be clan or IS?
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2011, 10:35:49 AM »
Not to mention the confusion caused during Phelan Kell Ward's visit to Arc-Royal, where his family friends had difficulty in trying to explain how courting works to an Elemental, and her amusing reaction to the haggling with the owner of the dress shop.


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Offline ~SJ~ Amarus

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Re: Would you be clan or IS?
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2011, 01:58:50 PM »
Well as I have been out of these forums for a couple days I am pleasantly surprised to find the conversation here going well. I was going to quote some people to comment or "inform" them of their misconceptions but it seems a few fellow clansmen have picked up the torch and carried the day.  A big apology to Yalk, I did not mean to ignore you, I just was not here. And thank you to Kelmola who did an excellent job of describing the cultural background to Clan Jade Falcon.

Also just so you all know, I am in contact with Matthew Pryde most often, as are many Jaguar's, and just so you do not think he has perished in combat on some Kerensky forsaken rock such as Trellwan I will tell you this. He is doing well, some personal developments have required much of his attention of late. He was recalled back to Ironhold for further leadership training, obviously the Jade Falcon high command has high hopes for their most odd commander of the Perigrine Strikers. So do not fear for his absense, Matthew and Leslie Pryde shall return on stronger wings than on which they went.


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Offline (TLL) Heretic

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Re: Would you be clan or IS?
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2011, 04:14:43 PM »
Kinky sex is one of the 3 requirements of all good scifi (1) Playing God, 2) Drugs, 3) Kinky Sex....like a Phillip.K.Dick novel or the Dune books)  In the BTU drugs are replaced with 'mechs, which are far cooler than drugs anyways, and much cooler than replacing drugs with Magic-powers like we get in fantasy novels....but the playing god and kinky sex aspects seem necessary to all good sci-fi.

So in clan society we have non-consensual male-rape (the Joanna/Aiden thing) as a kinky sex moment.....of course you need to suspend your disbelief here in accepting that a man can be raped in such a fashion (if he's not into it, penetrative sex is never going to happen between an adult man and a woman...such male-rape is only believable by virgin adolescents who get hard when they see daffodils due to inexperience and hormones ::)....as such I like to ignore that entire part of the story as it's very flawed and embarrassing...like when Jane Austin (a 19th Century virgin with NO experience of sex) tries to describe a sex-scene in IIRC Wuthering Heights....it's embarrassingly badly written so I move on fast).

And we have Miss Kerensky of the Dragoons, who is the classic babe-with-a-gun character we see in manga every day....this has more to do with the fanbase being mostly teenage boys (at the time of the tabletops peak) and having a hot girl on the covers of books & BTU material.  When I think of Clanner women I think of the fat bird that had energetic/violent sex with Aiden, her Sibkin, at the start of the story.

And in the Inner Sphere we have plenty of women piloting our 'mechs (1 in 3 are female or there abouts no?), and "'mech-bunnies" exist of both sexes, although most are female they are young & attractive people who are effectively groupies for Solaris mechjocks/mechjocelyns.... the Canopians have historic events surrounding the attempted murder of one Magistrix (the female ruler) that killed her boyfriend and her girlfriend but missed her lying in-between them on the bed....and there's many more examples....so kinky sex is a constant across battletech & Sci-Fi/Fantasy, not something clan or IS specific.

So we're best ignoring all the sex non-sense as it's just a requirement of selling Sci-fi to adolescent boys, everyone has sex, with Clanners  sometimes it's non-consensual, same with the IS....but if you have non-consensual sex in the IS then your probably going to jail....but as I say it's best ignored as it adds nothing to any debate on the cultural differences and does nothing but expose the badly written 2D women that exist across a lot of the books (not really Battletechs fault here, most men cannot write a convincing woman into their books...Checkov sucked at it, even Shakespeare struggled with creating believable females).


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Re: Would you be clan or IS?
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2011, 04:24:09 PM »
Wow...I think this may be a first...this is really hard to say...*chokes a little* I agr...*chokes some more* agree, with...*pauses to think of how to say this* that guy who happens to be a Heretic...*lets out a huge breath* WHOOOOOOOO man, that was hard to say.


But in all seriousness he is right, sci-fi women are mostly around to (a)rouse the male fan base. Although I will argue that Katrina was a cool not so 2D character, think spy, sabateur, ruler, black widow, murderer, machiavellian, ect ect all roled into one...along with that Wolf chic Ranna...she was dynamic in the sense that she learned to love while dealing with the fact that love, in the passionate sense that we think of mostly as love, is mostly devoid in the clan warrior caste. So all of the shit that goes along with that was developed in Ranna's character...go figure...a Wolf.


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Offline [IPA] Thalamus

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Re: Would you be clan or IS?
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2011, 04:27:09 PM »


So we're best ignoring all the sex non-sense as it's just a requirement of selling Sci-fi to adolescent boys, everyone has sex, with Clanners  sometimes it's non-consensual, same with the IS....but if you have non-consensual sex in the IS then your probably going to jail....but as I say it's best ignored as it adds nothing to any debate on the cultural differences and does nothing but expose the badly written 2D women that exist across a lot of the books (not really Battletechs fault here, most men cannot write a convincing woman into their books...Checkov sucked at it, even Shakespeare struggled with creating believable females).


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