Author Topic: To all the "good" people out there...  (Read 9406 times)

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Offline Scruffe

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Re: To all the "good" people out there...
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2012, 07:42:07 PM »

Do you believe everything you read? The site has an obvious agenda. .


Did i ever say that i believed that site? did I once state that i shared their beliefs? your making baseless remarks about me when the real issue is the girls personal well being and preferences.

However, the world is not black and white.

I never stated that the world is black and white, if I had this would hold far more weight

I could stay here and argue this but I do not want to sully this thread with mindless bickering and as such will step back before something regrettable happens.
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Offline ~SJ~ Atlessa

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Re: To all the "good" people out there...
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2012, 08:01:31 PM »
I do not know if Germany has a formal set of protocols for cases like this, but if there is one, I'm sure it is being respected. Intentionally harming a patient out of personal belief would have enormous and career-ending consequences on everyone involved. It is far more likely that they are working to the best of their professional knowledge than that they're risking their careers for no good reason. Medical professionals routinely work with people with whose life choices they may not agree, but standards of professionalism are set extremely high. The professionals are doing their job and doing what they believe is best for the kid. So are the people who wrote the news article and the petition.

Germany HAS a formal set of protocols, which is to prescribe puberty delaying medication, so the kid can decide when they are old enough to do so, or when the therapists are ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that a decision can be made sooner, at that point either the blockers will be cancelled or female hormones will be given.

THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN TO ALEX, because both her father and the youth office ("Jugendamt" literal translation) are going to stick her in an institution which firmly believes that it is possible to "cure" transgenderism by "bringing the person close to the gender role that we intend for them"

You can't tell me that this sounds like it's the best for the kid?

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong here, because you, me, and the rest of the public don't have the necessary facts or expertise to make that judgment. If I believed that "the evil father and the evil youth office" are trying to ruin the kid's life, I would sign the petition right now and probably do a lot more. However, the world is not black and white.

Well I DO have the facts: the "charité Berlin" is KNOWN for their view on transgenderism that TOTALLY flies in the face of all scientific studies made on the subject in the past 75+ years.
On a side note, they also still believe it is possible to "cure" a gay person.
This is the institution where alex will land if the petition fails.
I'm not saying the father is "evil". But he is certainly misinformed. As is the youth office. Which is why people who REALLY know what they're doing need to take care of this child. I am absolutely NOT saying that she should be given hormones at the soonest possible time. She should receive the same treatment that (almost) all kids that age in that situation get, which I stated above: puberty blockers, lots of talk, decision when it is time.


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Offline cyofee

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Re: To all the "good" people out there...
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2012, 08:20:11 PM »

Do you believe everything you read? The site has an obvious agenda. .


Did i ever say that i believed that site? did I once state that i shared their beliefs? your making baseless remarks about me when the real issue is the girls personal well being and preferences.

However, the world is not black and white.

I never stated that the world is black and white, if I had this would hold far more weight

I could stay here and argue this but I do not want to sully this thread with mindless bickering and as such will step back before something regrettable happens.
You said the following about me "he comes from a very biased point of view and is abjectly out of line", just for showing some healthy skepticism when presented with an incredible story. Look who's making 'baseless remarks'.

And thank you, Atlessa, for clearing it up a bit.

Offline ~SJ~ Atlessa

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Re: To all the "good" people out there...
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2012, 08:49:35 PM »
And thank you, Atlessa, for clearing it up a bit.

At this point I'd like to say: sorry if I came off a bit snappy before.. it's just that given the kind of treatment the girl is probably going to receive, I cringe when someone says "I'm sure they will do what's best for the child" <.<


Edit: Here a little quote (translated by me) from the original report that brought my attention to this case:

"In berlin, doctors recommend psychotherapy, in which the child should be brought closer to their biological gender/sex (same word in german): gender-conform behaviour is being praised, non-conform behaviour is 'disregarded or casually suppressed' "
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 09:47:52 PM by ~SJ~ Atlessa »


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Offline Artemis Dragmire

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Re: To all the "good" people out there...
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2012, 01:17:44 AM »
It's never right to force a human being to do or believe something they don't want to.

People, even children, need to be allowed to make their own choices.

That's all I'll say on the matter, as I have no interest in getting into an argument over it.


Offline Bill

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Re: To all the "good" people out there...
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2012, 08:58:34 PM »
I've a simple solution, shoot her/him into the sun with some of superman's DNA.

Then they can choose to evolve into whatever gender they want, or both at once if they feel like being greedy.

Offline ~SJ~ Atlessa

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Re: To all the "good" people out there...
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2012, 10:04:40 PM »
I've a simple solution, shoot her/him into the sun with some of superman's DNA.

Then they can choose to evolve into whatever gender they want, or both at once if they feel like being greedy.

The fapp is wrong with you? this is a PERSON you're talking about. And she's being mistreated for being the way she is.


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Offline -AAA-

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Re: To all the "good" people out there...
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2012, 10:30:53 PM »
Expecting understanding and empathy on the internet (especially in Toast [especially by Bill]) = fail.

Offline [IPA] Thalamus

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Re: To all the "good" people out there...
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2012, 12:09:47 AM »
I actually do kinda believe this story. I mean, there are still a lot of people and institutions who offer to "cure" homosexuality. I'll read into this one later.
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Offline [CG]Anastasius Focht

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Re: To all the "good" people out there...
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2012, 12:47:44 AM »
Expecting understanding and empathy on the internet (especially in Toast [especially by Bill]) = fail.

I take a more optimistic view myself, and its reflected in the rules

Quote
1: Remember the Human

2: Adhere to the same standards of behavior online that you follow in real life

3: Know where you are in cyberspace

4: Respect other people’s time and bandwidth

5: Make yourself look good online


Quote
Help maintain a fun and friendly atmosphere by using your best judgment

http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/info/forum-rules/

I dont subscribe to the idea the internet has to default to the lowest denominator of human expression as a given.

There are places like 4chan and Amkon.net where you can expect such a theme, but imo its shouldn't be the expected default
You have to understand the code of duty and honor that rules those who pilot these engines of destruction. Placing such an awesome weapon in the hands of an individual implies a similar gesture of trust

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Offline -AAA-

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Re: To all the "good" people out there...
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2012, 01:18:38 AM »
Technically, those are the Netiquette rules for forum usage, not the actual forum rules.  The only actual rule my post may have broken was the fact that my post wasn't strictly "positively contributing with useful posts", yet if that rule were actually enforced, the Toast board would be very, very bare.  Which is precisely my point; of all the places to expect a positive, thoughtful response, a post by Bill in a Toast thread is close to the bottom of the list.  His post was actually funny, yet Atlessa seems to be taking him far more seriously than anyone in their right mind should.

Offline Deathbane

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Re: To all the "good" people out there...
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2012, 01:20:50 AM »
I think Bill demonstrated what an open minded and liberal person he is

I mean if he had suggested that i take a cosmic journey to find my inner being, via being shot into SPACE...

Well. Id be quite flattered.
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Offline [CG]Anastasius Focht

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Re: To all the "good" people out there...
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2012, 01:43:34 AM »
Technically, those are the Netiquette rules for forum usage, not the actual forum rules.  The only actual rule my post may have broken was the fact that my post wasn't strictly "positively contributing with useful posts", yet if that rule were actually enforced, the Toast board would be very, very bare.  Which is precisely my point; of all the places to expect a positive, thoughtful response, a post by Bill in a Toast thread is close to the bottom of the list.  His post was actually funny, yet Atlessa seems to be taking him far more seriously than anyone in their right mind should.

Your post didnt break any rules AAA, i just wanted to put my two cents worth in.

As to the rules

Quote
Forum Rules
The MechWarrior: Living Legends forums see guests from all over the world every day. With the numbers and variety in cultures, believes and of course personalities, it has turned out that some rules are necessary to maintain a good place for civilized discussions. Before getting to the actual rules, we’d like to remind each and everyone of a certain set of behavioral guidelines.


So i interpret the Netiquette list as behavioural guidelines that do apply here since they are listed on the forums rule page

http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/info/forum-rules/

As to toast itself

Dear Toast,
 
Recently there has been a lot of useless spamming, outright trolling, user-to-user attacks and general asshattery going on and I'm very much tired of it.  The MWLL forums are intended to be an information portal and gathering point for the MechWarrior: Living Legends community and the types of behaviour going on here (even in Toast) have crossed the line numerous times.  Certain topics that are politically or religiously charged should probably not even be present here.  Ultimately the purpose of these forums is to foster the enjoyment and wider promotion of our game, not to be a anarchic playground for idiots of all stripes.

In my opinion off topic doesnt by default translate to anarchic playground

Again im not reading anyone the riot act here, im just expressing my opinion that people shouldn't expect even in toast that there should be no understanding and or empathy

At the end of the day this is a matter which Atlessa is passionate about and takes seriously, just because its in toast does not mean its fair game for spamming or trolling
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 02:16:01 AM by [CG]Anastasius Focht »
You have to understand the code of duty and honor that rules those who pilot these engines of destruction. Placing such an awesome weapon in the hands of an individual implies a similar gesture of trust

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Anastasius_Focht


Offline Ressk [CSF]

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Re: To all the "good" people out there...
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2012, 03:14:24 AM »
I believe once again i must say the same. This is an unfortunate circumstance, among many in the world. It seems wrong, but who am i to judge, seeing as i know nothing but what is presented to me in the articles.

other than that i have no opinion other than sorrow.
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