Author Topic: fusion engine  (Read 7694 times)

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Offline Alexis Kerensky

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Re: fusion engine
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2012, 02:53:30 PM »
yeah battltech sure has it figured out we need to stop using innefficent turbines and actually use the power between molecules  like how this fusio engine does ,but it doesn't make sense to me that it's using heat to create power yet heat causes it to go critical perhaps it's like you say that the engine can only converte so much heat ,but... what is going on with that extra heat how does it get to the heat sinks and why does it cause the reactor which is using heat as a power source to go critical?
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Offline Xarg Talasko

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Re: fusion engine
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2012, 03:36:21 PM »
Reactors only go critical if you have optional rules enabled (or are reading one of Stackpole's novels), and they typically only go critical after sustaining heavy damage to the shielding of the reactor, which lets the reaction out of the magnetic containment. Overheat death is generally caused by the immense heat coming from the reactor overwhelming the heatsinks and circuitry around the reactor, stopping it from functioning and regulating the heat.


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Offline [IPA] Avatar

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Re: fusion engine
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2012, 07:17:47 PM »
yeah battltech sure has it figured out we need to stop using innefficent turbines and actually use the power between molecules  like how this fusio engine does ,but it doesn't make sense to me that it's using heat to create power yet heat causes it to go critical perhaps it's like you say that the engine can only converte so much heat ,but... what is going on with that extra heat how does it get to the heat sinks and why does it cause the reactor which is using heat as a power source to go critical?

Wat? Simply put turbines are used to convert the heat energy (that would melt the mech) to kinetic energy (ya know, that actually moves it).

Actually the term "critical" is misleading since in nuclear engineering it means the normal operation (self-sustaining chain reaction). While supercritical does not mean a reactor that is actually going to explode, but uses supercritical water as working fluid (but I digress again...). At least in fission reactors. I don't know if this word is used in fusion reactor terminology.

Heat engines / reactors can be damaged by the heat generated in them, no contradictions there. I've seen engine pistons that melted and soldified in every stroke and eventually caused engine breakdown because they were fed with kerosene insted of normal fuel  ::). In a fission reactor after starting reaction, the core must be cooled constantly or funny things can happen (BOOM!). See Chernobyl.

Also turbines are pretty effective and super sexy 8).

Edit:
Looked it up, all I've written about the energy conversion is bullshit. Obviously I'm too stuck in the 21st century :-X.
   
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 04:49:46 PM by [IPA] Avatar »

Offline Alexis Kerensky

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Re: fusion engine
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2012, 07:48:06 PM »
yeah battltech sure has it figured out we need to stop using innefficent turbines and actually use the power between molecules  like how this fusio engine does ,but it doesn't make sense to me that it's using heat to create power yet heat causes it to go critical perhaps it's like you say that the engine can only converte so much heat ,but... what is going on with that extra heat how does it get to the heat sinks and why does it cause the reactor which is using heat as a power source to go critical?

Wat? Simply put turbines are used to convert the heat energy (that would melt the mech) to kinetic energy (ya know, that actually moves it).

Actually the term "critical" is misleading since in nuclear engineering it means the normal operation (self-sustaining chain reaction). While supercritical does not mean a reactor that is actually going to explode, but uses supercritical water as working fluid (but I digress again...). At least in fission reactors. I don't know if this word is used in connection fusion.

Heat engines / reactors can be damaged by the heat generated in them, no contradictions there. I've seen engine pistons that melted and soldified in every stroke and eventually caused engine breakdown because they were fed with kerosene insted of normal fuel  ::). In a fission reactor after starting reaction, the core must be cooled constantly or funny things can happen (BOOM!). See Chernobyl.

Also turbines are pretty effective and super sexy 8).
 
yeah welll the battletech fusion engine as far as i understand does not use turbines.
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  I am The wolf Chosen of Kerensky. As a  Warden clansmen i protect those who cannot fight for themselves and seek only to find peace in humanity. The Wolf's Dragoons were the spies of the clan sent by the clan wolf. It was through them that we  both realized that the inner sphere were people just like us.
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Offline Taemien

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Re: fusion engine
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2012, 05:26:34 AM »
I believe what allows Energy heavy mechs like Awesomes and Novacats to function isn't a specially modified reactor, but rather the heatsinks. If I'm not mistaken, these function as more then simple radiators. They actually force the heat to move. Otherwise they wouldn't work in extremely hot environments or in a vacuum.

Engines going critical happens in the optional rules are used and the engine takes 4 or more critical hits in a single phase. Three hits normally reduces the shielding to nothing and the mech just shuts down as a safety measure. Four or more hits means the shielding failed and the fusion process was disrupted before the safeties could shut things down. This is still a rare occurrence, happening on a 10 or higher on a 2d6.

Offline Sxooter

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Re: fusion engine
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2012, 05:29:22 AM »
Engines going critical happens in the optional rules are used and the engine takes 4 or more critical hits in a single phase.

Or in MWLL, you are or are fighting a 12thVR...

Offline Alexis Kerensky

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Re: fusion engine
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2012, 05:49:24 AM »
I believe what allows Energy heavy mechs like Awesomes and Novacats to function isn't a specially modified reactor, but rather the heatsinks. If I'm not mistaken, these function as more then simple radiators. They actually force the heat to move. Otherwise they wouldn't work in extremely hot environments or in a vacuum.

Engines going critical happens in the optional rules are used and the engine takes 4 or more critical hits in a single phase. Three hits normally reduces the shielding to nothing and the mech just shuts down as a safety measure. Four or more hits means the shielding failed and the fusion process was disrupted before the safeties could shut things down. This is still a rare occurrence, happening on a 10 or higher on a 2d6.
or it's suppose to ,but  as Duncan Fisher said accidents happen espcailly when there are  10 or so more players  wanting nothing more than to be that accident.

 but can someone confirm for me that the Battltech Fusion engine does not use turbines for power?
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Runway is the only one who can make it to Khan rank without ever moving.
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Offline Terragent

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Re: fusion engine
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2012, 09:12:14 AM »
The answer's already been posted.

Offline [IPA] Avatar

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Re: fusion engine
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2012, 05:05:20 PM »
"Power plants in BattleMechs use magnetohydrodynamics to produce the incredible amounts of electricity required for motion, combat and basic functions. With most weapons systems requiring power, as well as the myomer muscles and so on, the reactors usually provide just enough energy to power a standard 'Mech. Plasma from the fusion reaction is channeled through a series of magnetic fields into a loop. This plasma is conductive, and the loop functions as a generator coil, producing electricity and waste heat."

Taken from battletech.rpg.hu.

But you can look it up on Sarna too. This is the last time I look something up for you, Alex.

Offline Alexis Kerensky

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Re: fusion engine
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2012, 05:37:29 PM »
"Power plants in BattleMechs use magnetohydrodynamics to produce the incredible amounts of electricity required for motion, combat and basic functions. With most weapons systems requiring power, as well as the myomer muscles and so on, the reactors usually provide just enough energy to power a standard 'Mech. Plasma from the fusion reaction is channeled through a series of magnetic fields into a loop. This plasma is conductive, and the loop functions as a generator coil, producing electricity and waste heat."

Taken from battletech.rpg.hu.

But you can look it up on Sarna too. This is the last time I look something up for you, Alex.
I looked in up on Sarna and it was still confusing to me what exactly changed the plasma to electric power.
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Offline Tufted Titmouse

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Re: fusion engine
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2012, 01:51:46 PM »
Hoo boy, take a class in electricity sometime Alex.

The way I understand it, the plasma generates a powerful magnetic field which in turn interacts with a magnet, producing electricity. However, I may be entirely wrong on this; the plasma may actually be turning a turbine with these magnetic forces, or they may be using the same unobtanium that the guys in Core used to magically convert heat and pressure into pure electricity.

All we know is that if we piss in a BattleTech nuclear fusion reactor, it somehow comes out as emerald beams of death.
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Offline Spooky

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Re: fusion engine
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2012, 02:08:16 PM »
Hoo boy, take a class in electricity sometime Alex.

May be you should do that instead ;). It's a fair question from her.


The way I understand it, the plasma generates a powerful magnetic field which in turn interacts with a magnet, producing electricity.

The way you understand it? From what? Is that some BattleTech Lore?

The point of any nuclear power plant, be it fision or fusion, is to generate energy in form of heat. This energy is converted to electrical energy via steam turbines. There are other forms of nuclear power, that can provide electrical power without any moving parts, e.g. certain forms of radioisotope thermoelectric generators (like the one the Mars Rover Curiosity is using), which usually have a very low degree of efficiency.

There doesn't seem to be any detail in the BattleTech lore, as to how the energy generated from a fusion reactor is converted into electrical power (assuming that Mechs need mainly energy in form of electrical power...). In fact, many Sci-Fi universes are very vague about how power generated by any futuristic means is actually tapped or brought into any usable form like we know it or would expect it. Or what alternatives to electrical power they use for all their... things.

May be there is some detail as to how it is done in the BattleTech universe, but I haven't seen that yet.


In any case, regarding the "powerful magnetic field": you are probably confusing the magnetic containment field of the plasma with something that the plasma produces. That's not the case, at least not in a real fusion reactor ;). BattleTech fusion reactors also have "containment coils".

Offline Alexis Kerensky

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Re: fusion engine
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2012, 05:44:36 PM »
I highly doubt it is steam powered then it would just be a steam punk robot :P
no really i don't think it uses turbines.
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  I am The wolf Chosen of Kerensky. As a  Warden clansmen i protect those who cannot fight for themselves and seek only to find peace in humanity. The Wolf's Dragoons were the spies of the clan sent by the clan wolf. It was through them that we  both realized that the inner sphere were people just like us.
Runway is the only one who can make it to Khan rank without ever moving.
Do not mess with the runway, runway always wins.

Offline Sxooter

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Re: fusion engine
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2012, 05:47:42 PM »
While the idea of steam punk battlemechs makes me giggle I tend to agree, magneto-hydrodynamics makes much more sense and would be MUCH tougher than a turbine and provide almost instant energy transfer with no spin up time etc.

Offline [IPA] Avatar

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Re: fusion engine
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2012, 05:52:35 PM »
Why people associate steam turbines with steampunk is something I'll never understand... :(.